Why the Military Hates the Left

You know, I can really understand why the military has such a poor opinion of the left-wing political bloggers and the media. The Associated Press says that medical doctors are suspicious about the way Army Spc. Pat Tillman was killed by "friendly fire," while major left-wing bloggers are breathlessly stating, "Was Pat Tillman deliberately murdered by his fellow soldiers for being so outspoken against the war?" I really want to just reach out and slap the living shit out of them. I mean, honestly, Atrios, TRex, get a grip. This isn't Vietnam and it sure isn't the 1960s military.

Via the Strategist, I found this video shot by a British journalist as he covers a U.S. military unit in Iraq. Watch it. Two thoughts ought to be in your mind, the first being, why aren't U.S. journalists providing this excellent footage? The second thought is, gee, aren't these normal, red-blooded American boys just like the ones we see every day?

You may dislike the reason why we're in Iraq. Certainly, I do. You may disapprove of the military tactics that turn normal Iraqis into insurgents. Again, no argument. There are bad apples in the Army and Marines, and they need to be punished for torturing and killing innocent Iraqi civilians. Did the military mishandle the Tillman incident? Absolutely. But don't give me this shit that Tillman was fragged by an elite Ranger unit to stop him from sounding off about the Iraq War. No. Not today's Army. Instead, we see this bullshit from Olbermann, no less.

Those people serious about growing progressive military policy inside the Democratic Party need to get these idiots off the "murder conspiracy." Fortunately, there are a few islands of sanity out there, even in DailyKos land. Read this post and ruminate upon its nature.

Comments

[Grandjester]

J.

The Tillman case has been jerked around too much and for too long by the military and admin. And now we hear thew most damning fact: 3 rounds, 5.56mm, 2" Group, TO THE FOREHEAD.

"Fratricide" Apply directly to forehead.

C'mon J, regardless of motive or reason, Tillman was fragged, at close range. Don't blames the breathless conspiracy of the week types, this does look bad, because IT IS BAD.

[Jonathan Baum]

A more relevant question might be: Why does the left hate the military?

[dK]

The left doesn't hate the military -- that's such a worn, old, ignorant assertion.

J. I agree with all. Yes, he was killed by friendly fire, but the conspiracies over rangers angry about whatever his political views might have been is a HUGE leap, and irresponsible. Maybe God shot him, since he was also apparently an atheist -- that's just as compelling, ie. NOT.

You nailed it. Thanks.

[J.]

GJ, read the DailyKos blog. Gun experts - as opposed to medical docs - believe that an M249 SAW could have fired the shots quickly enough and at the right angle to have caused the head injury. It's the same caliber as the M4/M16 rifles - 5.56mm. He was not fragged. Get off it.

JB, like my colleague dK says, that's an old cannard. The left may hate war, is suspicious of military programs, but has consistently supported the troops. Don't confuse the cacophany of the many different policy discussions with dislike of the military.

On the other hand, certainly the military has a colored view of the left, in part because of right-wing propaganda and in part due to misguided beliefs as to what the left is like today. That's why I write this blog, to tell the military that they're not dealing with the 1970s left-wing - and to tell the left-wingers today that they're not dealing with the 1970s military.

[Grandjester]

I will be happy to attend your demonstration where you take ANY 5.56mm weapon (SAW, M-4, wev) and put it on ANY mount (hummer, bipod, tripod, your own meathooks in any position), you can even remain in a fixed position and have a fixed target and let's see if you can get 2" groups in burst mode at ANY range beyond point blank.

[J.]

If I had the weapon, kein problem. Firing a three-shot group at 50-100 yards with an M4, prone or kneeling supported, within a 2-inch group, piece of cake. I only fired the SAW once in familiarization training, years ago, but I will bet easy money that a SAW gunner using a bipod could do it easily.

[Grandjester]

Well, you are a better shot than me. I can only get those groupings at 50-100 yds with a Garand or Springfield.

I have never shot the three round burst mode on a 16, but had real trouble getting tight groups on singles with the one I shot (match grade barrel too).

So, it is possible, under good conditions...

Nope, sorry, still calling bullshit on this one. I don't go so far as to agree with the "murder" call but with all the obscufation in this one I am comfortable in saying someone fucked up big time.

[Lurch]

CPL Tillman's death was undoubtedly accidental and fratricidal. It's highly unlikely that it was an intentional shooting, though. Some of the proposed reasons for a conspiracy, like Tillmnan's fondness for Noam Chomsky are of course silly. However news that his journal was burned is questionable.

The multiply changing stories about the death were the first cause to suspect conspiracy. The calculating way the Army admitted after wringing maximum benefit from his funeral just added fuel to the fire.

The administration's claiming executive privilege is the last straw.

[James O'Brien]

Here's the thing... WHO THE F*** CARES?!?! Why are we making a soldier's death a political issue? Cpl Tillman served his country with distinction. I am personally grateful for everything he did for me and my fellow countrymen in his short career. I challenge every politician, blogger, and journalist to reference someone on Blackfive's "Someone You Should Know" list [http://www.blackfive.net/main/someone_you_should_know/index.html] every time them mention Tillman.

[dK]

James,
CPL Tillman's service and sacrifice never should have been made a political issue, you're absolutely right, and it's sad and unpleasant that his enlistment and his death have been made more of than the simple fact that this successful young man was so outraged over 9-11 that he dropped a lucrative career and enlisted to protect his country. That's the interesting and compelling part of the whole story. But the "who the F*** cares?" question leaves me puzzled because you don't provide the object. We all do care and we should care about him and all those in uniform. Caring and scoring political points can be mutually exclusive. I went to that excellent site you linked to, but I still don't see your point. I think the whole point of J.'s post, on this blog, was to make the point you seem to be making, i.e. enough of the BS about this case - the guy should be honored and remembered and people should stop exploiting his life and death, but yes, we should care.

[NVH]

GJ, I don't know what you know, but I know guys personally that can make that grouping with that weapon and others, and train me to do it...so let it go man, it was a tragic accident.

[Andy]

Grandjester, you need to go read Pat Lang's posts on the subject NOW. Here and here.

[Stormcrow]

You're never, ever going to get the conspiracy theorists off that loud button. Nor are the Dems as an organization.

Let me ask you this little pair of questions.

1) Have you ever tried talking sense to a conspiracy theorist?

2) If you have, did you ever manage to get any traction that was measurable for more than 5 to 10 minutes?

If you can answer both of those questions with an honest "Yes", you're head and shoulders above me in the persuasion department. Hell. you're head and shoulders above anyone I've ever seen or heard of. Someone gets his head stuck in that groove, and it's worse than the gostak and the doshes.

I know it's small comfort to you, but you are not the only person enduring this agony. Pat Lang is going through the same torments of the damned over on his blog.

But seriously, this is what you get when -

1) One knows that every authority within one's field of vision is a multiply proven pathological liar, and

2) The public education system which by rights ought to be fitting kids with working bullshit meters, is little more than a hangman's joke.

The result is that people who DO NOT have the tools to diagnose, analyze, and discard bunkum, also have nobody informing them that they can trust.

So they revert to what humans always do when they haven't a clue what the system dynamics really are - they pull them out of their rear ends, or else they fall for somebody else who is doing that.

If you doubt this thesis, curl up with a copy of The Cholera Years and read what Americans thought the root causes of cholera were, before they knew anything significant about bacteria.

I performed this experiment about 35 years ago, and it taught me an enormous amount about the way people think when they are cut completely adrift from the twin anchors of science and trustworthy authority.

[Maxtrue]

Kos hates the military. I wonder what bubble you are sitting in. The Democratic candidates are attending KosWorld and not even Hillary will attend Bill's speech at the DLC. As a Liberal, I am disgusted. I can't understand that you don't see how illiberal liberalism has become. JFK would have to run as a Republican today. Clinton gets slammed for suggesting common sense while Dodd wants a draft for Americorp. Get a grip and take a good look. While ya'll been blasting BushCo, ReidCo calls the military idiots. Wait intil defunding shuts the government down. Don't make me link all the stupid quotes and idiotic plans from the DNC. And remember that guy named Bobby who had some words here on torture? He's been leading the charge in Iraq that even the NYT yesterday has declared is making a difference in Iraq by turning tribal leaders against AQ. The leadership void most Democrats are calling for is dangerous and you all know it. And Tom Hayden wasn't a Liberal. Do you down play such threats when viewing military threats? How about using your minds to judge the real political transformation right under your noses....

Before you know it, kids won't understand what YOU mean by Liberal.

As usual, no disrespect intended, I am not Kos.

[Sock Puppet of the Great Satan]

"Kos hates the military."

The dKos diary you link to was not written by Kos, nor even by a front pager. Nor was it in a diary rescue.

Anyone can create a dKos diary, O concern troll.

[Grandjester]

Look guys, could well have been a tragic accident, probably was.

The cover-ups and flat out lies that have been told means the truth is gone, never to be recovered. All the little inconsistancies amplify themselves in this kind of situation.

Think back over the last five years when the Admin AND Military fudged, misdirected, tried to hide the cookies behind their back or just flat out lied about something. It all adds up and the truth has become the casualty.

We belive that people are capable of these things, because people keep dong these exact things.

[Maxtrue]

Dlindorf is a Kos regular. He posts his crap all over. Perhaps you should spend more time at Kos reading all the anti-military rants. Kos hides behinds free speech while claiming last week they would clean up the garbage. The day after, managers failed to remove a photo shop picture of Bush having sex with a sheep. You find this at Fox? CNN or even ABC? KOSWORLD is the place where Democratic candidates should go, turning their backs on the DLC? So I'm a troll because I state the obvious fact that the growing illiberal Left hates the military? If I started spewing the garbage Kos spews, my posts here would be over. Period. There have been numerous headlines at Huffington and Kos that go far over the edge and certainly disrespects the military and even the Liberal Democratic nature of our country. Go ahead and support such crap. I believe in free speech, but I will continue to call shit what it is, shit. And you can call those who disagree with you trolls. Fair enough for you?

[Grandjester]

Max,

Do you have a link to that pic of Bush doin' the sheep?

[Maxtrue]

Jester,
Your logic is flawed. Because the administration has screwed up (not a single crime has been proven against top officials), we should assume the crap posted on Lefty blogs? We should assume the worst? How about using that same logic on Iran or Chavez and assume the worst. Let's assume the worst about clandestine nukes because Russia and China have a bad record. It is faulty reasoning. Period. Congress approved Bush's power to invade. It was not illegal nor is pre-emption. Mistakes ought to be corrected, crime should be punished, but the hysterical and down-right unAmerican Lefty blog world is destroying the definition of Liberal. Conduit Jr and former Mr. Reaganomics have joined the Left side and even support the theory WE blew up the WTC. Yep, the Left is importing Right Wingers. Once you lose the impartial nature of your progressive mantra, the postion falls and there will be only two extremes fighting while America goes down the proverbial toilet. And Kos/Huffington are free blogs? My posts were silenced when I posted scientific and mainstream links that refuted their headline stories while others were allowed to go attacking me while comparing Bush to Hitler and claiming I was too stupid to understand America is controlled by Jews.

[Grandjester]

Seriously tho, KOS should not be much of a concern. I rememember seeing one of his first appearances TV, he wore a wrinkled jacket, sputtered about. Now he is being absorbed by the Media and Big Dem collective for that all coveted "access" (as they line up to kiss the ring at his little convention, who exactly is stroking off who here?). He's eating it up as they devouer him.

[J.]

I will agree that there are some real radicals within Kosland who don't trust the military and think the worst of us. Some of them are the more prolific posters. I tried reasoning with them, and they flamed me out. I do not, however, subscribe that these opinions are the norm at Kosland and they certainly don't represent the moderate left-wingers.

[Maxtrue]

I believe Kos removed the picture after this exchange:

"O'REILLY: Well, OK, but before you -- before you're too kind to the guy who runs it, I want to put a picture up that we took off there today. All right. Put that picture up. And the picture is of the president of the United States with a cow doing an illegal act.

All right. Now this is on the website today. All right. Is that a cow or a sheep? It's some kind of barnyard animal. So they can say whatever they want to say on this website. And they do. I mean, they lie all the time. They -- I don't know whether you know this or not, but they contacted the Secret Service saying that there was somebody on BillOReilly.com threatening Senator Clinton.

MILLER: This is -

O'REILLY: I mean, this is how insane these people are.

But if -- the picture that we show, as objectionable as it is, is on there today. And I'm saying to myself, how can anybody who wants to be president of the United States, you know, go to a convention sponsored by these people? How?

MILLER: Well, all I can assume is Bush is going full bore for the bovine vote there. So --

O'REILLY: Do you get my point, Miller, or not?

MILLER: I get your point, probably not as much as the cow, but I do get the point."

Stubborn Facts does not allow this kind of crap, nor do other reputable blogs. If Kos wanted to clean up their act, they could. More than half of what appears there is insulting to reason, let alone all who reject such political discourse. I support free speech, Jefferson said things about Washington, that George could never forgive. We aren't talking about free speech. We are talking about the disintergration of Liberalism as you and I know it.

[Will]

A quick note on the film by the British journalist. Here's why similar work is not being shown through American outlets.

1) It's about Afghanistan
2) It's longer than 10-15 seconds

American television (with perhaps the exception of stuff on PBS) is not structured to deal with long format journalism. It goes against everything they do. You might as well ask why there aren't more touchdowns in basketball.

[grepthis]

So in combat, under pressure, sufficiently rattled that you fire on your fellow soldiers, your marksmanship and mad gun skillz are such that you can get a tight 3 shot group at other than point blank range. Awesome. Excuse me for being a little skeptical. This wasn't on a range or on a training exercise.

While one can't assert as a certainty that this was a deliberate close range murder given what is publicly known, the possibility can't be discounted.

What might have clarified matters is if evidence hadn't been destroyed, if a real investigation had taken place, and if a load off BS hadn't been shoveled over everything up and down the chain of command.

If anything is to blame for the charges, countercharges, and confusion it's the grand old military tradition of above anything else Cover Your Ass.

[Andy]

Well, I guess if murder can't be discounted, then we shouldn't discount anything. Hey, maybe it was suicide! M4's have a 3-round burst setting - he could have shot himself! Now there's a theory that has just as much "evidence" as the murder theory, which is to say, none.

It's one thing to criticize all the deception that's gone on in this case - criticism that is true and valid. It's quite another to wildly speculate and then attempt to use that deception as evidence to support that speculation.